What do you suggest me to do? I cannot do the next listens as they go higher in range...
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smt |
SingingSuccuss |
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Hi all, I've been working SS listen-1 for a month. But I found no increasing in my range. My voice cannot goes over middle C.(maybe I'm a bass singer).
My throat gets bonded on the NeyNeyNey exersice... So I'm frustrated...
What do you suggest me to do? I cannot do the next listens as they go higher in range...
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Chris |
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Hey bud!
First thing's first, did you find your head voice? If you're only stuck in chest voice, it's no wonder you have no increase! Also, you might want to share a few clips of what you're doing so the more experienced members here can help you with. As for the nay excersises. I'm guessing you're getting really shouty as you're going higher so try this: instead of going NAY NAY NAY, when you feel you're starting to strain and can't go higher, change the NAY to a NUH. I'm not really sure how to explain this.. it would really help you if you skyped with some of the guys on this board. I don't want to drown you in terminology and all that crap.. Good luck bud! |
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JollyJake |
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Take a step back. Frustration won't help! Listen to CD 1 and understand the difference between head voice, falsetto, etc. What is pulling up chest voice?
Apply that knowledge to your own voice.
We are here to help, but you need to understand the basics before we can really help. Jake
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban
"The better you are at vocalizing, the better you will be at singing." - Musiciano
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Napilopez |
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Hellooo smt!
Some thngs to keep in mind: the "nay" sound isn't meant to go high, it's meant primarily to help you get past your first bridge, at the E4-F#4 range. After that, you can change in to nuh nuh me thinks, or really just stop doing it. Although 'd never actually heard of switching to "nuh", but try it out! Makes sense to me. Like chris, I suspect you are using too much volume, especially on the lip rolls and tongue trills which should be done at quite a low volume. And make sure to be dopey on them as well, being a bass will not prevent you from going above Middle C, basses are just as capable of hitting High C. As you go higher, try to let go of tension by adding a bit of that "dopey" sound which lowers your larynx. I could not go above middle C before as well, so I know what it feels like, but it can be done. Focus alot on the lip rolls and toungue trills, those are the primary range increasing exercises. The dopey sound is essential, and you should have an "oooo" or "uh" behind the lip rolls, so if you were to open your mouth while doing the lip rolls, an "ooo" would come out. The most important thing about those two exercises is that you should be extremely relaxed! If you feel comfortable enough, I realllllyyyyy recommend you post clips here of you doing the exercises. No one here will make fun of you, just help you. I'm also available through Skype (screenname: napilopez), and MSN/Windows Live (napilopez@hotmail.com). If you have MSN I'd prefer that, because I always forget to sign on to skype =P. |
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smt |
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Thank you all for your kind replies! I'll try the things you suggested. I have found my Head voice, yes! but it is very airy and straining. I'll send some clips later. Kind regards! |
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Napilopez |
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If it's airy and straining, itt proooooooooobably isn't headvoice and is probably falsetto. I can't think of how to make head voice really airy and
straining past a certain range. But we await your clips =]
Jake's advices is CRUCIAL. It's key to not frustrate yourself, and reallyyyy important to truly understand the things Brett's talking about. It's all there, we're just here to clarify =P |
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confused |
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basses are rare
they're like Tauros in the Safari Zone |
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Napilopez |
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Or missingno's in the pokedex.
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smt |
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Hi again, Here's my voice clip: http://www.2shared.com/file/8976950/dae56c8e/My_Trainings.html Starting with the Huming, then bubbling, TTrill, Naynay and at the end a falsetto which I thought it's a headvoice. |
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confused |
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except basses don't mess up your game when you capture them and save
or DO THEY? HMM... FOOD FOR THOUGHT |
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confused |
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absolutely no way youre a bass
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Napilopez |
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Hmm, what do you mean you can't go above middle C? You went up to an A above middle C there. It was falsetto, but falsetto can be closed to become head
voice. Why don't you try the lip rolls and tongue trills any higher? Keep in mind that these two exercises should generally be done lightly. You
shouldn't worry about breaking or cracking or sounding good or bad when doing lip rolls and tongue trills, or in most vocalizing. Just do it, and don't
hurt yourself, singing should not feel uncomfortable, and never ever painful. Remember to keep an "oo" as in "moo" vowel behind the lip
rolls and tongue trills, and do them with a comfortably low larynx, dont bring it down excessively either.
Podcast(Goodness gracious i need to figure out how to make these shorter, 10 mins): http://www.box.net/shared/er74b8vu6z |
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smt |
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So I can expect increasing my range If I continue the exercises although my voice falls in falsetto.
BTW how many weeks should I continue listen-1 ? |
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Napilopez |
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It depends, theres no set time for moving on. You should move on well you feel comfortable doing all or most of the exercises correctly. But it's also not
bad to try a more advanced CD while you're doing an earlier one, just to see what its like. Sometimes there are exercises in the later CDs that can help
you do earlier exercises.
You're practicing the exercises to avoid falsetto, and generally want to avoid it, but you can learn to turn falsetto into head voice. It's simply a matter of closing the cords. Even if it breaks when you do it, falsetto can become head voice. I'd like to hear you try to do the scales higher to hear why you say your range can't go any higher. You didn't tell us much with your clip because you didn't show us much of where the problem area was, except for the nays and ahs somewhat. I recommend you watch the first video here. Just click play on the box where it says "Brett Manning LIVE exerpt": http://singingsuccess.com/vocal-tips It's a very good intro video for beginners, and though brett says much of that in SS, I still think you can find it helpful to try to go along with the exercises presented. Your range is already well above middle C, so be confident and keep on working! You'll get wherever you want with the right dedication =] If you can, post clips again, with you trying to do the full exercises until your range actually stops, rather than just stopping it because you don't want to go higher. I couldn't help you much ange wise from your clip because you stopped doing the lip rolls and toungue trills so early. Also, do those two exercises more dopey and quietly/easily. But don't try to push yourself so much that you begin feeling pain either, and take a break if you begin to wear out.
Last Edited By: Napilopez
11/07/09 8:47 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Guffe666 |
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Napilopez,
I've just listened to your podcast and I'm interesting in knowing why you say that the "Nay Nay" is really not a healthy sound? |
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Napilopez |
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=O you listened? I'm surprised anyone besides the person they're intended forwould listen, seeing as they're so long-winded XD.
They nays encourage the raising of the larynx and often yield unnecessary tension, and are also pretty easy to abuse. Nay in the early CDs is meant to help connect chest to head, not necessarily mix or really much else that I can think of. In other words, it's not generally a tone you want to have when you sing except for maybe stylistic choices. Though I can't think when you'd want to sound like the nays for stylistic choices anyways. I mean it kinda sounds like twang which can be awesome for R&B and soul, but for the exercises, in the first lesson especially, its really exaggerated and tense-ish. Mind me asking why you're asking? =P |
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Guffe666 |
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Well, it's just because I too often hear that a specific sound is unhealthy. ALL sounds can be produced healthy and ALL sounds can be produced unhealthy. A
high larynx is not unhealthy if done correctly.
I'm asking because you can't really say it's unhealthy because there's no evidence that says so. It's all based on assumptions and a "fear" of those sounds. A high larynx position is just as healthy as a low one. Here is a few examples of singers who use a high larynx with a lot of twang (related to the nay nay) - a lot of singers use this approach in a completely healthy and stylistic way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeo6yUuRV98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxm-4AwtB5w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYRC4H64EFk&feature=related |
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JollyJake |
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The fear of the high larynx stems from SLS. Brett says some very interesting things in "Mastering Mix." He says that while speech level singing is a
good idea, most styles require the use of more muscles than just the ones used in speech.
He also advocates all three larynx positions: low, neutral, and high. There is an "unhealthy" high level though, I think. Basically, he advocates building the voice first, stabilizing the larynx so that it can stay neutral, and then after your voice is built, he says to not be afraid of the "unhealthy" sounds. He says that it is a stylistic choice you must make, because these different larynx positions result in different tones. These are concepts for those who are advanced. I wouldn't tell a beginner to try singing with a high larynx, because that individual's larynx may not be stable to start with. Jake
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban
"The better you are at vocalizing, the better you will be at singing." - Musiciano
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Napilopez |
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My thoughts echo those of Jake, though I haven't recieved my copy of MM yet.
Perhaps I shouldn't have said flat-out it's an unhealthy sound, but I do follow the SS philosophy in that it's not a way I would encourage beginners to sing. From my experience, people who tend to strain their voices a lot tend to find this remedied a good amount by a neutral larynx. Since smt is beginnign Also, as I said, in the earlier CDs where smt is at, the nays are really exxagerated, and I don't relate them explicitly to twang, as I love the sound of singers who use alot of twang. But right now this isn't about style. In any case, I appreciate your input, as the nays can indeed be produced healthily, and I was wrong to say the sound is unhealthy. But I wouldn't encourage that as a singing sound to a beginner who is trying to get a "balanced" tone, especially in the higher ranges, as it is so easy to abuse. |
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Guffe666 |
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Well, about not teaching it to beginners. May I ask if you know what twang really is and how it relates to singing?
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Napilopez |
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Sure lol, though I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying. If I'm not mistaken, twang involves the tightening/constriction of the
arypyglottic fold and helps direct the sound to resonate in some places i cant remember lol, though it's not a nasal sound. It can help a singer find
his/her formant, and add that squillo (ringing) quality to it. I believe it also helps thin the vocal cords, like edge exercises for us SS folk. It's the
sound you get when you imitate a quacking duck.
The thing is, nays, as taught by the SS disc program aren't "just" twang. It's involves twang when they describe the cry sound, but also brings in nasal resonance and will make beginners have a tendency to pull or strain if brought too high. Twang alone is fine--a great thing to use actually--but the nays involve more than just twang. It can be done to go high and whatnat and blah, but its main focus in lesson 1 is getting you past the bridge. There are better exercises when it comes to range and mix, imo.
Last Edited By: Napilopez
11/07/09 5:40 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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