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Jun 30 08 3:44 PM

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vX3HHtytDo&feature=related

I'm sure you guys are quite firmilar with david phelps. So I was just curious what exactly makes his high notes so powerful ? It almost seems instead of getting lighter he almost pushes down for the C sharp at the end ? David phelps is my idol as far as singing goes I'd love for one day to be able to get to achieve higher notes like that. I been to 2 of his concerts and he kicks ass in those just as much as when you see him on those videos. I also got to meet him once and I was actually shaking when I met him haha.
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#1 [url]

Jul 1 08 12:30 PM

What do you mean "what he does"? He just "does it." At least that's what it looks like to me! What do you want us to tell you how he coordinates his muscles, what happens within his vocal tract, how much air pressure he's using, whether he tightens his butt or not?

He's just doing it. That's all. I'm sure it took him a while to learn to do it well and the same will probably go for you. The body needs to be taught how to do this.

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JollyJake

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#2 [url]

Jul 1 08 2:33 PM

When I was new to training I often wondered at replies like Musiciano's; I thought that those high notes took something special! Truth is, they don't! All things fall into place with good training. Those notes that were once difficult become easy.

Keep training and you WILL get there!!

Jake

"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban "The better you are at vocalizing, the better you will be at singing." - Musiciano

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#3 [url]

Jul 1 08 2:57 PM

No offense, but Musiciano said nothing in his post. Yes, I agree and understand butit's obvious he knows what is being asked. It's also obvious that he knows the types of things the body needs to do. It's obvious that JlkJedter doesn't. Why didn't you help by communicating some of those things so he could feel & search for it? You're reply will most likely lead to blind guessing. We can point in the right direction.

- Josh Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place. Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit. "The only easy day was yesterday." - Navy Seals

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#4 [url]

Jul 1 08 9:31 PM

Honestly I don't think there's a better way to point anyone with that type of question in the right direction. Maybe you have something to add... something you think would be a better pointer.

I want to add that I'm sure when David Phelps was really young and starting out, he too wondered how his favorite singers did what they did, he probably wanted to do it too. I'm also quite sure David Phelps still CAN'T do what his favorite singers do because he is not them! He can only do what he can do, not what others can do. That he can sing as high, and maybe even higher than his favorite singers, yes, but that he can do exactly what his favorite singers do, no. I'm sure there came a point in his vocal journey where he gave up on trying to be like his favorite singers and just stuck with what was natural and immediate to him. The moral of the story is, enjoy your favorite singers but don't try to be like them.

Jolly is right and kind of backs up the point I am trying to make, there's nothing special about singing high other than it takes a greater amount of coordination and skill to achieve (both of these things take a lot of practice and time).

Lastly I want to add that the observation that "It almost seems instead of getting lighter he almost pushes down for the C sharp at the end ?" is simply an observation and you'll never really know exactly what's going on unless you are the singer. For experiential reasons I wouldn't use the word "push," it tends to condition the mind to overshoot and miss the coordination. Secondly, you can observe all you want and we can say all we want about "how he does it," but it's all going to come down to how you get to the point where you can do it! We can write a PhD on a C sharp, but it's not until we gain the coordination through extensive training and practice that we have any use for it! I suggest you skip the beginner's tendency to be way ahead of yourself and realize where you are now and step by step develop yourself into where you would like to be!

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JollyJake

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#5 [url]

Jul 2 08 6:48 AM

Good post, Musiciano. That is all true!

Jake

"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban "The better you are at vocalizing, the better you will be at singing." - Musiciano

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#6 [url]

Jul 2 08 10:39 AM

Great idea and philosophy. But you're not guiding anyone personally and telling them what sounds are good and bad. Most people can't feel for themselves correctly either. They know they make a sound, and still argue to me that it's clean and released when everyone can hear it's not. Simply because they haven't felt freedom, they think the freest sound they make now is total freedom. I never implied you should tell them exactly what Phelps is doing. However, I did imply and state that you could say the types of things that one should expect from their body while attempting these things. It's better to give someone a guideline than let them try to "feel it" and kill their voices.

Never did I imply that there is something special about how notes. the C3 is made just as differently from the C4 as the C4 is from the C5. However, you FEEL the types of things going on, and science can generally help show the difference. Does that fine tune it for you to know? Nope, you still have to do that. But having a guideline like that gives you something to go towards so you can tell if you're in the general direction. You can't communicate on your level. You have to go to theirs.

- Josh Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place. Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit. "The only easy day was yesterday." - Navy Seals

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#7 [url]

Jul 2 08 1:03 PM

Jolly is right and kind of backs up the point I am trying to make, there's nothing special about singing high other than it takes a greater amount of coordination and skill to achieve (both of these things take a lot of practice and time).

It's what you stated in the latter of your sentence that makes high notes special to nearly everyone. If it weren't special, we'd all pitching our songs straight under our middle voice section, all in straight chest.

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JollyJake

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#8 [url]

Jul 2 08 5:15 PM

His point was it isn't magic; once you get to a certain level of vocal development, things just start happening and you're singing high Cs full out.

Jake

"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban "The better you are at vocalizing, the better you will be at singing." - Musiciano

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#9 [url]

Jul 2 08 5:41 PM

yeah, but you still have to tweak things in a certain way. Even though it's not identical for everyone, it's rather close.

- Josh Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place. Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit. "The only easy day was yesterday." - Navy Seals

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#10 [url]

Jul 2 08 10:30 PM

If you read it again you'll notice I said "other than." Like if I said, "There's nothing blue about him other than his eyes."

Ugh, do we have to get this deep this nit-picky about language?

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#11 [url]

Jul 3 08 10:16 AM

Maybe he took it that you meant something different. In your new example "There's nothing blue about him other than his eyes," it leads me to believe that it has been said he is down and sad or "blue" and you're telling me otherwise. Language makes a difference, Musiciano. Being nit-picky means we communicate THOROUGHLY.

- Josh Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place. Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit. "The only easy day was yesterday." - Navy Seals

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#12 [url]

Jul 3 08 12:00 PM

Boy we really want to get into this don't we? I'll just say thank you and leave it all there. I guess I should've used green, but then I could have been alluding to this subject either being some sort of environmentalist or none other than Kermit the Frog himself! Or maybe I should've put "other than" in bold and italics to make sure it was clear enough.

Last Edited By: musiciano Jul 3 08 12:16 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#13 [url]

Jul 3 08 2:03 PM

musiciano wrote:
Boy we really want to get into this don't we? I'll just say thank you and leave it all there. I guess I should've used green, but then I could have been alluding to this subject either being some sort of environmentalist or none other than Kermit the Frog himself! Or maybe I should've put "other than" in bold and italics to make sure it was clear enough.

Enough clear was it sure make to italics and bold in "than other" put should've I maybe Or. Himsef Frog the Kermit than other none or environmentalist of sort some being either subject this to alluding been have could I then but, green used should've I guess I. there all it leave and you thank say just I'll. We don't this into get to want really we Boy.

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#14 [url]

Jul 3 08 2:45 PM

Sure thing. I'm just saying that words mean a few things. My take on "blue" in your example was meant to show you that. Communication is key. Instead of piping out a lot of philosophy that doesn't answer the question, maybe we could use some of the technical information to add the answer. I don't disagree with you, but I do believe the question was avoided completely.

- Josh Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place. Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit. "The only easy day was yesterday." - Navy Seals

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#17 [url]

Jul 4 08 2:50 PM

confused wrote:
Wild musciano fainted! BeyondTenor gained $1 for winning!

I agree with both. I like your philosophy musiciano but guidlines are needed as well.
Dang I like Josh bluntness about this. In CVG it is menitoned that words are the worst way to comunicate because they are open to interpretation. God connects with feelings - are the language of God- but as far as our language we need to be as clear as possible.

I say play around and feel what is comfortable for you. Record and post a link. This will get musiciano in a more technical mood image and he and Josh will give you their best advice.

how cool it is at lease one of our professors back. But I consider Josh another one

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#19 [url]

Jul 4 08 6:25 PM

I believe she meant that quite the opposite. We don't go by feelings, but instead God knows them all without a doubt.

- Josh Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place. Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit. "The only easy day was yesterday." - Navy Seals

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#20 [url]

Jul 6 08 1:43 PM

God knows them and COMUNICATES with you throught them. Did you ever have a strage feeling about something with no reason and than saw an unexpected resolt?

Like you don`t feel like going somewhere and you don`t and then hear there was a terror act in that place.

Feelings are clear and you can`t interpret then just feel them. But we humans comunicate with words, and words are always open to interpretation

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