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Jul 11 07 9:34 AM

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i started singing at the age of 13.did some self training, a lot of experimentaiton. learned vibrato on my own.

then stopped, came back to it at the age of 17, went to a voice teacher. saw no resolts. she was like those that musiciano said " if you have such a teacher- run out of the door!"

in summer 2006 got Singing Success. saw some improvment after 2 months. ( got rid of the bad habbit of "singing straigh from the mouth") found mix after 3. but the pain was there al the time and i didn it on and off, stuck in the 3rd lesson.


then musiciano told me about the "too much in the thorat and too little air " . gave me the hiss tone hiss excercise, and it felt like it gave the power back to my voice. he also said "...if you just begin discovering your voice..."

so since i had not1 to hear me, i doveloped a bad habbit doign this program, which was supposed to help me achieve my dream and was considered as "my hope" to sing better.

begin discovering your voice >:

after almost a year of attempts to practice! i am still a beginner! :rolleyes
i should have been able to sing more or less like Jake! :x and i am even not satisfied with my chest voice! :rolleyes >:
i recorded myself an heard that my voice and no melodic quolity.

Reacently... stopped sinigng success, folloiwing the advice of a bel canto voice teacher, and started doing some excerices she recorded and sent me. yesterday i sent her a recording of me doing them and she gave me lots of things to correct, especially this:

"don't allow yourself to get heavier in
any way as you sing down the scale"


so i tried to do as she said and found that my voice starts having what lacks in the recording..i was really surprized of the ease, the vobrato, how it became more warm and rich....
i aslo thought "heavier" on higher notes and felt like i blend registers on a few noted better than ever.


although now she will be away untill the last week of Agust.
5 WEEKS! :( i will miss her. what to do mean while...

and today, what you think? i have one of thise colds again! :rolleyes

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#1 [url]

Jul 11 07 4:47 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

You're probably not "at the beginning," considering now I'm sure you know a lot of things that don't work for you. Thomas Edison said "If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward."

Singing is not easy, particularly if you have a heavier type of voice. It doesn't happen on its own. You could sing for 15 hours a day and not get better if you're not conciously thinking and analyzing what you're doing. You can't just mess around with your voice and think you'll get better. You need to really think about what's going on in your throat.

In case I haven't emphasized this enough, you need to think about what you're doing. Identify feelings that are going on in your throat, and do whatever it takes to figure out your voice. Also, take any advice you're given with a lot of skepticism. Don't blindly trust any advice anyone gives you. That includes advice from programs like SS, as well as any teachers, no matter how many credentials they seem to have. That doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to advice. It just means you should be skeptical, and take any advice with a grain of salt.

BTW, do you have any recordings of your voice that you could post here?

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#2 [url]

Jul 11 07 5:23 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

You can hear leonetha in this thread: LINK, and another thread which I'll go look for.

EDIT: Here it is: LINK



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#3 [url]

Jul 12 07 4:58 AM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Nounesto! that was great! YOU posted links for my "singing"...
:lol but thre i SUCK. bad clips. once i make more progress
i will post somethinng.
i agree with what you said, RX.

Quote:
You're probably not "at the beginning," considering now I'm sure you know a lot of things that don't work for you.


well... i just though i could figure out what WORKS, too

but really, these think that these days i started understanding something. this voice teacher toldme she wanted to hear me do it again. singing more light, even..she sad i WAS pushing...

once i used to do SS and was afraid to push. so dante told me:
"you are trying to do absolutely nothing. it throws everything out of balance. so when going down i tried that time to do more full voice. now it seems to me that if i do those notes that are in my break full voice it does turn out mix...and not bad at all. but those were few attepmts. now my thorat hurts. again :rolleyes i hope tomorrow it will be better.

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JollyJake

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#4 [url]

Jul 12 07 10:57 AM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Hi, Leonetha.

At this point, pain is a big issue with you. You need to find out what 'causes the pain.

What do you when it starts to hurt? How often does it hurt? Where does it hurt? Just some questions you could ask yourself.

You need to start being your own diagnostic tool. This pain is setting you back, so you need to find out what 'causes it.

You have to pinpoint it - on what exercise does it start hurting? Take a day out, and do the exercises one by one. Do the lip rolls, then take 10 or 20 minutes of rest. Then do the next one, and then rest again. Then do the next one and then rest again.

Then, eventually you can find which one (If that is the problem) you are doing wrong.

It could be that you are pushing to get the high notes, it could be so many things!

Pain is not normal in vocal training! So don't get that in your head! Get it out of your head! :D

I'm just trying to help you here.

Don't get discouraged with this!

Jolly Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#5 [url]

Jul 12 07 11:40 AM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Quote:
Don't get discouraged with this!


thank you Jake. you nice guy. :) no i am way too stubborn to let anything COMPLETELY doscourage me.
furstrate me... that`s another story. you know i am a - :evil

Quote:
This pain is setting you back, so you need to find out what 'causes it.


yeah, you are right! i am goning to see an ENT this month, with God`s help.
my voice teacher (not exactly MY voice teacher. since she doesn`t give me in person lessons but she is working with me by recording excercise and emailing them :D ) told me to write down every day what i eat, how i use my voice and what sensation i feel. so that i have a history. and it helps me to be aware of what exactly i feel.
yesterday it was horrible. i had a cough and then couldn`t breath for a few seconds :(


Quote:
Do the lip rolls

hmm. i tried to do them recently, after a month i didn`t. they seem to get vioilently constricting from the very begining...
i am learning a different technique now, not SLS. but thanks for the advice anyway :)

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JollyJake

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#6 [url]

Jul 12 07 1:12 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Good, Leonetha! I'm glad you aren't going to give up! You've come to far and did to much to give up now!

Good, good! That ENT should be able to tell you what is going on.

As long as the technique works, then go for it!

Keep singing!

Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#7 [url]

Jul 12 07 1:44 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

that`s what she says about vocal programs
" I don't believe that DVDs, CDs or books on singing are an effective method of instruction. That's a one-size-fits-all approach that can do more harm than good because we continue to sing with our ingrained habits and we may well misunderstand the instructions."

now, i DON`T say that it is impossible, but i do think there is some truth in the words.
Jake. for instace, was lucky enough not to develop bad habbits and to do things fine, in the end. SS works for him. maybe 1 day i will find it bennefcial again. but i just believe that if you have a GOOD teacher, no matter what method they are teaching-they have to know how the voice works!

my first voice teach was awful. NO RESOLTS. that`s why i didn`t want to go to another. but i love Vikky! she is really good. from the very begining when i saw her posts i thought she must be a good voice teacher.

hope tomorrow i can vocalize. with God`s help.
can`t wait to apply her critique to the excercise. i want to see how i sound.

maybe now i understand what musiciano`s "less is more" is all bout

once i though i understood. but theoretically there is NO USE. only PHISICALLY when you are vocalizing and some 1 HEARS you!

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JollyJake

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#8 [url]

Jul 12 07 1:59 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Right, some people need a teacher because they have too many bad habits and they need help 'untwisting' themselves.

I don't have any facts, but I would say that Singing Success works with most of the people who do it. That is just from what I have seen. There are those that have to get a teacher, but that can't be helped. It isn't Singing Success' fault, put it that way.

It looks like at home courses are coming to be the new thing. Teachers are getting scared, so of course they'll say that they don't like them. The new at home courses are coming in on their business. This is good though because that means that the bad teachers wont be able to make a living on what they do so theyll have to move on to something else. Only the good ones will be left. (That might not be true)

Not saying you don't need one or shouldn't get one, just a different perspective. Scary thought if I was a teacher Id make sure I knew my stuff so that my students got results.

If I go to a teacher at all, I'll go once I am done with Singing Success - that'll be a while. They can teach me things I can do with my voice to get different textures, different coordination's, etc.

Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#9 [url]

Jul 12 07 3:22 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Quote:
This is good though because that means that the bad teachers wont be able to make a living on what they do so theyll have to move on to something else. Only the good ones will be left. (That might not be true)


yes that might not be true becasue there are bad programs,too. and it could be horible for a beginner to start out with a bad program and no guidance at all.

and remember, that most of us here always get this "you are not balanced, you push, you are constricted, you are holding back..etc." from Dante and Musiciano

YOU NEED SOME1 WHO IS PROFESSIONAL TO HEAR YOU at least 75% of the time.
how many of us who start with SS know how the voice works?
registers are not everything!

i don`t say that the courses are a bad thing. but i will confess:

at a certain poin i starting feeling as if i know something about the voice. from doing SS, experimenting some and reading a lot on this site. musiciano and Vikky with their comments, proved me WRONG.

i believe the SLS technique would work for me if i trained with Brett in person. but i don`t thik it`s gonna happen any soon...:hat

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JollyJake

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#10 [url]

Jul 12 07 3:38 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

I am going to get more books so I can learn more about the voice. You should learn more. Read!

Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#11 [url]

Jul 12 07 3:51 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

yeah. need a credit card to buy from amazone. they are cheeper.
in Islrael i couldn`t find books about the voice.

bu i will tell you that i don`t want to stidu that much right no becasue i found out it was confusing me and giing me illussions that i knew somehting when i actually didn`t. it`s only when you PHYSICALLY DO IT. ONLY THEN YOU KNOW how it actually workds.

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#12 [url]

Jul 12 07 3:55 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Quote:
Teachers are getting scared, so of course they'll say that they don't like them. The new at home courses are coming in on their business


now that i think of it, Brett is a teacher himself. and he produced a program for you to trian alone at ome without a teacher.

i am sure that his income doesn`t consist only from the money he gets form selling SS....

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JollyJake

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#13 [url]

Jul 12 07 4:03 PM

Re: still at the BEGINING-a year after getting SS

Right, the reason Brett made Singing Success was so the 'common' person that loves to sing could learn to sing better (More range, power, etc).

$200 is a very small price for such a product.

What I'm saying is that the bad teachers should be weeded out after a while.

Some people will prefer teachers. To others, it won't matter (Like me). Singing Success is working great for me, so I don't feel I need a teacher at this point.

Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#16 [url]

Jul 14 07 1:34 PM

Good News!

thank you spiedy.
listen. i think we need to get as much guidance as we can! really! we need to UNDERSTADN, FEEL what we are doing, be aware.

and sometiems all we are doing-without being aware of it, is trying to do more and more and have no paciance and then we push or rduce or add air becasue we aren`t sure and want to do that better sound.

now, working with this voice teacher, i htink i started grasping the concept of how to balance it! but now i seem to go back to holding back the air because i crack:rolleyes
@#%$ this air thing! damn.....i need to sdo the breathing excercise. b4 every scale think.

but what`s cool is that i am doing it:
i understand this "lowering" the high notes it my mind to get the mix, and makign high and light the low notes (in mind only) to get them more..even? more easy and rich.

but the tongue seems to help that process. damn it i don`t need it there and don`t know what to do with it. because i need to "get ready" in my mind, to think: high or low,and watch my tounge and my mouth shape and relax my neck b it.


see what a preperatiom! but i htink that all this preperation in my mind does tense me up!

does anybody have an idea to appriach and get prepared to create the sound?

where is philosopher musiciano? :D

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#17 [url]

Jul 14 07 11:00 PM

Re: Good News!

You need a lot of silence. Internal and external. You are too busy focusing on "stuff," on "details." Practice complete silence for as long as you can. Practice mental silence as well. You will see how this is particularly difficult to you, you want to know the answers to things that need no answers. Watch your thoughts.

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#18 [url]

Jul 15 07 6:30 AM

Re: Good News!

thanks for unswering musiciano.
what do you mean-how do i focus on silence?

once, i though that when singing i should aim my throat to be as close to "rest. silence posiiton" but this aproach made me put no energy, and thus like Dante said that by trying to do ablosutely nothing i threw everything out of balance.

Quote:
you want to know the answers to things that need no answers.


like what things exactly....?

b4 doing the excercise i do a sort of relaxation (that makes me impetiant bcasue it`s hard for me to concentrate) and i relax my neck and then another muscle and my neck again..intill all theo body relaxed...relaxing the neck in between every time.

then i do some breathing excercise that make my abdomen extend and not to breath so that the chest goes up and then i vocalize.

so she told me to watch
-not to push
-tounge
-legato
-the lower notes light and the high heavier
-not to push

the last 2 helped me a lot! i really succeed to get over the break and to sing richer the lower notes....but...
if i don`t tell myself "pretend now it`s falsetto"
(singing in lower chest) i woudn`t aviod putting too much wheit in the voice-and thus i realy get constricted and crack.

and so is on the higher notes-if i tell myself "lower" i get it through the bridge...without falsetto.

and now you say that all of this is

Quote:
You are too busy focusing on "stuff," on "details."


i mean - without the stuff and details HOW am i going to make progress? :eek

sorry if i don`t completely understand how exactly i both keep my thoughts silent and DO improve the things she told me to improve?

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#19 [url]

Jul 15 07 9:25 AM

Re: Good News!

Quote:
once, i though that when singing i should aim my throat to be as close to "rest. silence posiiton" but this aproach made me put no energy, and thus like Dante said that by trying to do ablosutely nothing i threw everything out of balance.

I guess I should have clarified what I said. It's like you were trying so hard to have everything right and to do nothing within that your vocal mechanism that ended up creating more problems. When you're practicing, just for fun, try pretending like you're going to imitate a 5 year old singing a song. This is to help you become more spontaneous with how you approach practicing and to become a little less judgemental about what you're doing. (Judgemental in the sense of worrying about whether everything you're doing is correct or whether you're doing too much.) It's good to be judgemental about what you're doing sometimes to give yourself a reality check, but you take it a little bit too far, to the point where it's hurting you.
_____________________________________________________
We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#20 [url]

Jul 15 07 10:00 AM

Re: Good News!

I mean don't speak for an entire day or two. Become familiar with your involuntary thoughts. Avoid consciously thinking about anything.

Your mind is incredibly busy and you are losing sight of the simplicity of things. You have yourself mixed up with the things that you think, can or can't do, but those things have nothing to do with who you are. You are not the story of all the things that have happened or happen to you, you are the person that these things have happened and happen to. You think you are all these things and you have lost touch with reality. Details, thoughts and things (especially the things that "you can't do") have become the most important things in life to you, this is because you are confused. You have lost touch with who you are.

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