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Mar 19 07 12:05 PM

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Hey guys, what do you think about the new singing program by seth riggs singer's advantage? It has an 'evaluation' cd where you can evaluate your level and then work in a customised set of exercises. It sounds more methodical than singing success. What do you think?
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#1 [url]

Mar 19 07 12:49 PM

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Whatever works for you, I think to have both methods works. I know Jesse and some other people here practice exercises books and cds other than SS. Later as you get better you will start mix and matching excercises. For instance, I will practice using "coo" syllables (something I learned from a John Henny Podcast, he's a level 5 SLS teacher) and even though I am past the "nays" I will still do them from time to time to help me get through my bridges.

Remember as well, Brett started SS because he saw some problems with SLS, he felt that it was incomplete.

Actually I took a sneak peek at some of the more advanced SS lessons, and this is basically how you start to practice, you begin to do lessons on your own and mix and match different vowels and syllables to help you with the lighter or heavier coordination.

I'm not advanced or anything, but being a musician (playing guitar was basically the same thing, you just take different exercises from different people and practice them) I know how to apply all these things. I'm sure Jake or Cuno will have more insight than I.

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#2 [url]

Mar 22 07 9:05 AM

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I actually had looked into Seth's kit, too. I wouldn't recommend it, basically because it can't be nearly indepth enough. Also, SS incorporates more than just SLS, though that is it's concrete foundation. Seth's kit will most likely be SLS by the book, which will have more issues that SS. If I understand correctly, though, his evaluation CD can be very informative. Brett makes you figure out what vocal fach you are on your own (and leaves out some of them, such as leggiero tenor and coloratura soprano), whereas Seth doesn't leave any out, and gives you some exercises to figure out which you are.

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#3 [url]

Mar 22 07 11:49 AM

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Brett makes you figure out what vocal fach you are on your own (and leaves out some of them, such as leggiero tenor and coloratura soprano), whereas Seth doesn't leave any out, and gives you some exercises to figure out which you are.

Your fach is really not important at all. EVERYONE approaches the voice exactly the same way, whether you're a bass, baritone or tenor. The only difference is whether you're male or female. Your fach is just used to describe your natural voice timbre and your comfort zone. For instance, a leggiero is just someone that has a naturally lighter timbre (not due to them lightening up the chest) and is comfortable singing quite high. A baritone may be able to hit all the same pitches as a leggiero in full voice, but he may not be comfortable singing B4's and C5's often. For instance, I can hit notes lower than a lot of basses, but I'm not a bass because those notes aren't the easiest for me. (I'm talking about C2 and lower.) Also, I don't quite have the bass timbre. I can also hit notes higher than most women, lol. Does that make me a soprano? LOL. Don't think so. This fach stuff is just useless UNLESS you plan on pursuing a career in opera. Even then, no one will really agree on your fach. So just sing what's comfortable for you and what suits your voice. The technique is approached the same way regardless of your fach.
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#4 [url]

Mar 22 07 11:58 AM

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I agree. Though the fach will determine WHERE the said things happens to different voices, such as bridges. It's nice to know as a beginner what you are, so you don't try to use tenor bridges when you need to use baritone ones.

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#5 [url]

Mar 22 07 2:21 PM

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I agree. Though the fach will determine WHERE the said things happens to different voices, such as bridges. It's nice to know as a beginner what you are, so you don't try to use tenor bridges when you need to use baritone ones.

No, no, what I'm trying to say is that all males pretty much bridge at the same point, give or take a note. Doesn't matter if you're a bass, baritone or tenor. If you use the muscles correctly, it will happen at approximately the same point. Now, the degree to which you must coordinate the falsetto with the chest may vary a little bit, but it's mostly the same. Once again, the difference in fach is just a matter of the natural color of your voice, assuming you're doing everything correctly.
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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#6 [url]

Mar 26 07 3:49 PM

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See, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Between a tenor and a bass there is a good bit of difference in overall fold length and thickness. Even just that "little bit" will actually make a big difference in the overall. Just slightly boggling that a true basso can bridge at the same place as a true tenor. Then there is also the rare male soprano to consider (which I don't think is so rare after all).

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#7 [url]

Mar 26 07 4:41 PM

male soprano

Don't all male sopranos simply use damping to get into that high range meaning that all of us could be male sopranos if we wanted?

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#8 [url]

Mar 26 07 5:07 PM

male soprano

By male soprano, I'm referring to men with vocal folds as thin and short as a woman. Most men have thicker folds, and normally longer folds, than women in general. That's why we have a bigger larnyx, to hold the bigger folds.

But, yes, we can stretch and coordinate the fold properly for any male to sing soprano with ease, yes.

Dampening doesn't occur until the whistle register. Head voice has the longest, and thinnest folds, which is a prerequisite for the dampening to whistle. That's a misunderstanding that Seth created.

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#9 [url]

Mar 26 07 7:19 PM

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See, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Between a tenor and a bass there is a good bit of difference in overall fold length and thickness. Even just that "little bit" will actually make a big difference in the overall. Just slightly boggling that a true basso can bridge at the same place as a true tenor.

Not necessarily. You have quite a few tenors that have longer and thicker folds. (Called dramatic or heldentenors.) You also have tenors that can hit the exact same notes that basses can hit. You have some baritones that can't hit low notes that some of their fellow tenors can hit. When you have all of these things in mind, there is no clear distinction between who's a baritone, tenor or bass. And everyone will classify you differently, which doesn't help either. Usually, it just boils down to the natural timbre of your voice and your ease at sustaining a certain range. Normally, you won't know that until you've trained your voice to some degree. That's why I said just about all men will transition at the same point. And I'm talking about the BIG transition. You still have to begin coordinating things MUCH before that point, but the crucial changeover point is what I was referring to.

As for the male soprano, it depends on what you're referring to. Are you talking about a male that just sings in the soprano range or a male that hasn't gone through puberty (be it because they've been castrated or due to some biological abnormality)? For the former one, Nate is correct. They just use damping to get that upper range. Actually most anyone that sings anything above a high C will use damping. In whistle, there is just much more damping than say on a C#5 for a male. But then again, there is no clear distinction on what's whistle either. That's why I call anything above a C5 super head -- you're using the cords in a different way than all the notes before it. Now, if you have a male that hasn't gone through puberty, then I don't 100% know if they would use damping. You'd have to find some little kids to study to find the answer to that. Their larynx and muscles haven't fully developed, which is why I'm inclined to believe they don't use whistle by means of damping, although it could be possible.
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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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JollyJake

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#10 [url]

Mar 26 07 7:26 PM

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And everyone will classify you differently


Hahaha. Yeah. That is true.

This is an interesting subject! I finished Mark Baxter's book - it was a great book! All singers that don't know a lot about vocal technique should get it.

Jolly Jake
________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#11 [url]

Mar 26 07 8:30 PM

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Ah, okay. I'm not talking about the majour change that you are. I understand then. I was referring to when you have to START shifting somewhat. But I get it now.

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#12 [url]

Mar 26 07 9:20 PM

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IMO, you shouldn't just wait until a certain note to begin coordinating things. I'm CONSTANTLY coordinating things in my voice, from my lowest note all the way until my highest note. I don't wait until a Bb3 or Eb4 to start coordinating things. You need to coordinate things well on each and every note.

_____________________________________________________
We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#13 [url]

Mar 26 07 10:00 PM

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I understand that. I was more like... the bridges. That's more like what I was getting into. Brett has the bass bridge A3, baritone C#4, and tenor E4. It's not really a grand huge shift though.

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#14 [url]

Apr 2 07 9:34 PM

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Get SS, hold on to it but learn to let go. It's great to get a collection of programs, it can help out a lot.


But Seriously if you should get a coach.

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