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JollyJake

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Mar 29 07 10:47 AM

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Hey all,

First of all, I have no interest in doing this, but I just thought about it and it was an interesting thought.

1) Ok, say your favorite singer, who has totally balanced his voice (Vocal folds are fully developed) dies. Then, (Lol) they put his larynx up on Ebay.

You win the auction and then you have surgery (I don't know if this is possible, but just say it is) and they take out your larynx (Which houses the vocal cords) and put in the deceased singer's larynx.

Now, not saying this is possible, but here is the question:

Your tone wouldn't change, because what makes the tone is the shape of your face and nasal cavity (I think - I might have got some of that wrong), but you would be able to hit all of the notes that he could hit - but you would still have your own tone. Is that correct?

2) How much surgery on the face would it take for your tone to change?

Haha. Interesting questions, eh?

Jolly Jake
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JollyJake

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#2 [url]

Mar 29 07 10:58 AM

Re: Jake

Hahahahaha. Actually, I wasn't thinking about him at all, lol. That was funny though.

Jolly Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#3 [url]

Mar 29 07 11:38 AM

Re: Jake

I wouldn't take Phelp's voice is you paid me.

But, to the question. Any change in the larnyx, throat, mouth, nasal cavity will change your tone. You have a fold length and thickness to consider. Changing to their folds would change these variables. Also, I seriously doubt you would have their range. The muscles would trained yes, but you'd have to learn to use them the way that the said singer did. You can't be balanced. The reason they were so balanced was because they knew how to use those muscles perfectly. That's what is keeping you from being so balanced. So, you're really not gaining anything, and losing YOUR tone. You've lost what makes it you. So, it really has no perks.

-Joshie

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Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#5 [url]

Mar 29 07 5:27 PM

Re: Jake

It made me think a good bit. Lol. It would be funny if it worked properly. Because everyone would be like "Holy cow! I thought s/he died!" lol.

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#6 [url]

Mar 29 07 6:09 PM

Re: Interesting/Dumb Questions

To answer your questions, Jake:

1) The surgery thing, to my knowledge is not possible. If it were possible, then they would have plenty of patients out there with working larynxes (sp?) instead of using those robot sounding things that they have to use to talk. (I forget what the devices are called.) Anyway, the hard part about getting it to work is first of all, having your body accept the foreign larynx, then getting everything innervated correctly. And just because they stick someone else's larynx in your body doesn't mean that you're going to know how to coordinate everything like that person did. They'd have to give you that person's brain too in order to make it somewhat effective because most of the coordination that he person has learned is actually in the cerebellum of the brain.

Anyway, assuming this could work, I don't know the degree to which it would change your tone. Your unique vocal timbre comes from the unique shape and length of your vocal tract, not from the shape of your face. The length and thickness of your vocal folds will also influence timbre. Longer, thicker cords give richer, fuller sounds.

2) Facial surgery wouldn't alter your tone much at all. Surgery to change the shape or length of your pharynx WOULD significantly alter your tone. Even surgery to change the buccal cavity (mouth) would alter your tone. So if you have oversized tonsils, for instance, and have them removed, your vocal quality may alter somewhat since they're part of the vocal tract.

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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#7 [url]

Mar 29 07 6:37 PM

...

Actually Cuno, I saw on Discovery Channel a while back, they were able to replace a guys larynx! The guy got in a motorcycle accident (basically some "trickster" hung a wire between two trees, and he rode into it and damaged his throat.) They took a larynx from a dead guy and put in the guy with the damaged throat. He was actually able to speak normally after some rehab. So larynx transplants can be possible as far as I know. But there wouldn't be much use for it anyways.

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#8 [url]

Mar 29 07 7:09 PM

Re: Interesting/Dumb Questions

Must mean it's a newly "working" process.

Still the brain portion needs the training.

So, Dante, if you have your tonsils removed, what kind of timbre change do you think would occur?

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#9 [url]

Mar 29 07 7:28 PM

Re: Interesting/Dumb Questions

I think the questions jake asked are interesting. I'll start saving some money because you really can't know for sure with modern day technology:D
Of course I am just kidding but i think you might be able to get PARTS of a larynx.

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#10 [url]

Mar 30 07 1:03 PM

Re: Interesting/Dumb Questions

who's david phelps?

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#11 [url]

Mar 30 07 4:55 PM

Re: Interesting/Dumb Questions

youtube.com/watch?v=6vX3HHtytDo

That would be Phelps. And, actually, it has become very easy to hear what he does wrong. He tries to cover it up with "style" as the reason, but I'll find this song by this guy I know... and you'll see the difference. Not saying the guy I know is perfect either, but he doesn't make nearly as many bad technique decisions.

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#12 [url]

Mar 30 07 4:58 PM

hmm

I dont' want to start an argument again.
are you referring to the breathiness, improper approximation of chords?
because i'm pretty sure its deliberate, don't you think?

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#13 [url]

Mar 30 07 5:08 PM

Re: hmm

I'm not going to argue over it as your likes and dislikes are a PERSONAL preference.

I wouldn't actually call it deliberate. The breathiness is what occurs when you're let go, and don't approximate correctly. There's no way this is intentional, because if that's the case, why does he ALWAYS do it?

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#14 [url]

Mar 30 07 5:40 PM

Re: hmm

Breathiness, while related to incomplete adduction, is a different issue. Let's start with "noise". "Noise" in the voice is considered any non-harmonic spikes in the spectral readout. (Can't think of a better way to phrase that at the moment.) Noise is heard as airiness, static, clicks, or just about anything impure in the sound. The causes of noise are many, and is where the issue becomes complicated.

Breathiness, by the definition, would be considered a kind of noise in the sound. However, I use the term breathiness to describe when someone intentionally wants to make the sound airy. That's something that you do intentionally by literally abducting your cords in the throat so that they don't provide any resistance to the air. David does this often in his lower range. However, when you begin to sing out (to any extent) and there is airiness present, it means your cords aren't coming together all the way. That's incomplete adduction. That's what happens to David in his mid to upper range often. That's incorrect and wears the voice out. You also can have it in degrees, so it's not just like you have either no adduction, complete adduction or incomplete adduction. Sometimes, the adduction can be more complete than in other situations. Mariah Carey is someone that comes to mind who has a rather bad case of incomplete adduction. There was one recent performance of her on YouTube where she went to hit a D5, I think, and you hear this big whistle come out in the middle of her tone. That's due to incomplete adduction and her cords not closing correctly. You hear all types of things like that when there is incomplete adduction.

With that being said, breathiness is actually kind of an advanced thing to do. (And I mean do correctly.) You really have to know how not to send so much air past your cords, especially when they're in an open state like that. A lot of times, when people go to do breathy stuff, they're actually just singing with incomplete adduction that leans heavily towards the airy side of things rather than the adducted side of things. Doing this, especially at any kind of medium volume, is constrictive and will wear out your voice. This is the reason why I am against learning to sing by doing things lightly and softly at first. When people go lightly and softly, they rarely do it correctly and are more prone to singing with incomplete adduction. If you practice in more of a medium to loud volume, you're less likely to experience incomplete adduction (and the resultant constriction that goes along with it).

I want to add that noise in the sound is not just limited to airiness, in case I didn't make that clear. Noise can also come from distortions and growls that you do in your vocal tract. You can also get noise by singing with your cords in an overcompressed state. However, most noise in the voice will be due to airiness.

And to make this clear, airiness is just the air your hear in the sound. Air that has not been converted to sound energy. It's caused by you intentionally making the sound breathy or by singing with incomplete adduction (which is kind of unintentional).

_____________________________________________________
We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#15 [url]

Mar 30 07 6:04 PM

Re: hmm

So to say he sings let go would be true, and that he doesn't do it intentionally, would be true, correct?

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#16 [url]

Mar 30 07 11:17 PM

Re: hmm

Well, a big part of how you end up with incomplete adduction IS by singing let go. Now, he may be singing let go to try to get a certain sound, but is going about achieving that sound the wrong way. For instance, I know how to sing let go and can do it consistently. It gives a certain kind of sound. That still doesn't negate the fact that it's let go, incorrect and constricted.

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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#17 [url]

Mar 30 07 11:37 PM

Re: hmm

Oki.

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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JollyJake

Posts: 2,405 Administrator

#18 [url]

Mar 31 07 1:45 AM

Interesting

Interesting. Thanks for replying, Dante!

Jolly Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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#19 [url]

Mar 31 07 6:41 AM

Dumb question

Hmmm... Why in the world would anyone want to change themselves? Answer = insecurity. Being secure and grateful to God for what He bestowed on you and using it to the Maximum is much better than aspiring to be something you're not. Musiciano has time and again talked on allowing ourselves to be able to sing. I think what he means (correct me if I misunderstood) is that each and everyone has got something unique to give. Whether you have this or that type of vocal folds. We are all gifted differently yet equally. What you can do with ease, I probably would struggle with. Be yourself in ALL ways and your voice (read 'instrument') will respond accordingly.

Give us what you have 100% and I assure you the best of singers in this world won't be able to compete with you. An interesting thought - of all the people who inhabit the earth, only you can be you. If you refuse that honour, too bad.

I like calling a spade a spade - that's why I think people should have told the initiator of this thread what it was all about. We are hear to help each other out and not to flatter or mislead.

Be blessed.

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JollyJake

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#20 [url]

Apr 1 07 1:08 PM

Re: Dumb question

Hello, BeenThruThat - welcome to the boards!

As for the question, I was just curious to what would happen. I'm totally content with my voice - it can always be more developed, but I'm happy with what I have to work with.

Jolly Jake

________________________________________________________________________
"Work very, very hard - be grounded, be passionate about what you do and find the thing within yourself to make you want to be you. Go beyond me, be yourself, say what you want to say." - Josh Groban

"You can disagree without being disagreeable." - Former US President, Gerald Ford

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