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Apr 1 07 3:50 PM

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I have a question for everyone on here. Why is everyone so afraid of chest voice? I would really appreciate it if someone could get a hold of Jesse so that he could chime in on this thread.
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#1 [url]

Apr 1 07 4:05 PM

Re: Chest voice

I think you're mistaken. It would be strange to say most people are afraid of chest when most people here are trying to make their entire range sound like chest voice! But it only goes so high naturally, and they want to hit those cool A4s and C4s that chest really can't do with any tonal goodness (I could upload my chest hitting A4 and let you decide whether it is good or not).

I love my chest voice...I'd love to be able to get my upper register to have its tonal charisma. But like I said...those high notes call us with their siren's song.

There is only one voice I'm not afraid of...and that is my chest...all the others are strange and underdeveloped.

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#2 [url]

Apr 1 07 4:23 PM

Re: Chest voice

I already told you, but I'll post it all here. Oh, and Slatts, I think you meant A4 and C5.

Absolutivelylyly. I'm not exactly comfy with it now, but I'm not afraid of trying to use it. I'll get comfy. It was too thick sounding for what I had learned. It felt harder, so it had to be unhealthy. I was taught singing was supposed to be easy and require nothing really and chest, and sometimes fry, went completely against that. So I just never fooled with it, which is most likely why I was so off the way I was.

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#4 [url]

Apr 1 07 4:49 PM

Re: Chest voice

Let me rephrase my question, because I just realized that my definition of chest is different than most people's on here. When I say chest, I mean full out chest. Not just a sound made on a lower note. Your voice has to be fully engaged to do chest as I see it. The thickest, loudest sound you could possibly imagine your voice making in your lower range.

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#5 [url]

Apr 1 07 5:41 PM

Re: Chest voice

I think I know what you mean...almost everyone here is looking for one thing: to develop their "mix". It's true that very few here are looking to develop their chest voice more (especially in the sense you describe). To be honest, I would like to delve into both, but my priority is to develop my mix right now...once I can hit C5 with a strong mix and control, I will be very happy and then focus more on other areas. I am not afraid to take my chest voice to F#4's, but right now I really would like to be able to hit it with the mix!

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#6 [url]

Apr 1 07 6:49 PM

Fear of Chest

I think fear of chest voice is natural for anyone under SLS or SS tutelage. Brett Manning, who many here consider quite the authority on voice, appears to think that chest has a limited range and that if you try to sing higher than the usual break with a chest coordination, that you will hurt yourself.

I myself tend to think more in CVT terms. My problem is that I usually start to become very constricted in moving to the higher ranges. Most of this problem is, I think, due to not being sure how to actively support. I know you (Dante) say that singing higher with a chest coordination takes tremendous effort and will, but I'm not sure what that effort is supposed to feel like. As such, I tend to fear chest when I get to about the D above middle C.

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#7 [url]

Apr 1 07 8:47 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

Singing higher in chest really isn't effortful but it takes ENERGY. You cannot sing high in chest if you sing in an underenergized way. Actually, you can't do ANY kind of powerful singing, even if it's only in falsetto, if you sing under-energized. Singing takes ENERGY. And a lot of people aren't used to giving the kind of energy that singing requires. The amount of energy that singing requires is comparable to any kind of athletic sport. When you sing in an energized way, you WILL get tired after a while. Not that you necessarily misued anything, but your body just gets tired...because you're human. It's similar to how you'd get tired if you ran for ten miles. You may not even be able to run that much at first, but can eventually work your way up to it. In the same sense, you have to build up your stamina for singing. If you're physically fit and take good care of yourself, that will help a LOT. But you just need energy no matter what. Even quiet singing (when done correctly) requires energy, just not quite the same amount as singing full out. Underenergized singing often causes more problems than anything. Often when people are told to sing softer, they sing softer, but incorrectly in an underenergized way. That's why I'm against soft singing if you're just learning. But enough of my rant for now.

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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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JollyJake

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#8 [url]

Apr 2 07 10:18 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

I'm usually singing in mix around Gs and higher. I don't pay much attention to notes below that. Usually, I don't put enough energy into my singing. That is my problem.

Jolly Jake

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#9 [url]

Apr 2 07 10:21 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

We talked for a bit last night, and I believe we pretty much came to the conclusion that no one really understands what he means by "chest."

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#10 [url]

Apr 2 07 10:33 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

Not to be crass, but talk is cheap! Post something so we know what it sounds like! When someone wants help on something they are always asked to post a clip and that usually clears up all the confusion, and there is apparently plenty of misunderstanding here.

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#11 [url]

Apr 2 07 10:36 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

I know I know. I'd rather leave that up to him, because... DANG he does such a good job. Besides that, I just like his voice.

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#12 [url]

Apr 2 07 11:39 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

Even if I posted a clip of full chest voice, you would still need something else to compare it to so you can hear the difference of what I'm talking about. And you could be doing a million different things. You could be using varying degrees of less chest, but in a balanced way. Or you could be singing in varying degrees of let go chest, which is unbalanced. You could be singing in overcompressed chest. Etc., etc., etc. Josh understood last night when I talked to him because I knew exactly what he used to do, and could show him the difference. He can tell you firsthand how hard I worked to get him to the right sound, because he would do everything EXCEPT for the right sound. (Goes back to what I'm saying about there's so many different things that you could be doing, so you can't just make a clip and say here. I constantly made the right sound, yet he didn't get to it until we worked through all the wrong sounds.) The main thing I can say is that full chest is LOUD and BRASSY. If the sound you're making does not fit that description, then it's not full chest.

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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#13 [url]

Apr 2 07 11:47 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

Mhmm... somehow I knew it would be something like that.

Dang, gotta keep reminding me how hard it was to get to the right SIMPLE sound. Gah, makes me feel like tiny and stupid. Lol. Dude.... I bounced around it so much, and even at times "accidently" got it right, and then couldn't duplicate the sound again. Lol. I guess there's a lot more to understanding than just having the correct sound sampled.

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#14 [url]

Apr 2 07 11:54 AM

Re: Fear of Chest

Don't feel bad, because I was the same way when I was learning. Someone would make a sound in front of me, and would try to emulate it, but do everything EXCEPT for the sound. That's why singing is a learning process. You really have to learn your instrument. Not part of your instrument should be left unexplored. And you only learn the correct sound through trial and error. Hopefully, you'll have someone to guide you to the correct sound, which will make things easier, but it's really trial and error. You have to just go for it, and if you don't get it, you make modify what you're doing. You repeat this process until you make the right sound and can do it consistently.

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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#15 [url]

Apr 2 07 12:00 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

I'm not feeling bad. Just stupid. ^^ I know it's a learning thing, and I'm completely okay with that. I would say that's the main reason I'm starting to listen to so many different people, just so I can try to emulate what they do to figure out the effect/sound.

So, I've pretty much decided not too many people can truely respond to your thread, my friend.

-Joshie

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The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#16 [url]

Apr 2 07 12:52 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

Cuno, I respect your knowledge of all this, but coming from a teacher, the preferable way to teach is to "show" and not just "tell". It doesn't make any sense to say you would post something but then there would be nothing to compare it to. Is it not plain enough to say, "many people when they sing in chest sound like this: [and make the sound in imitation of people with fear of chest]...but the full chest sounds like this: [and make the full sound you're talking about]."

A good teacher will reach the audience in terms they understand, not wonder aloud why people are afraid of this mystical thing they apparently don't understand anyway.

Sorry to come off as rude, because you have done me a great good in helping me understand what my voice is up to, but I think your pedagogy is awful.

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#17 [url]

Apr 2 07 1:10 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

Actually Slatts, what he said is as best as you can put it. Basically, by putting up a clip like that, you're not going to be able to truely understand it. Iono... in two minutes he did chest 10 or 11 ways last night, to make sure I understood EXACTLY what he meant. The thing is, he can connect and deliver the package to me, BECAUSE he knows how I started, and we both know everything that happened. So, by comparing it to what I did so often, it was given to my understanding. If he would have just tossed out the correct way to do chest, then it wouldn't have done me any good.


Hey, Dante. I think that it may get the point across better if you did do something like last night and recorded it. You know, the different degrees, and balanced and imbalanced. It might help. I think Slatts would get it that way. You did cover it pretty well. If all else fails, they just don't get any help from it. No harm no foul.

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A good teacher will reach the audience in terms they understand, not wonder aloud why people are afraid of this mystical thing they apparently don't understand anyway.

That must mean he is a GREAT teacher because he doesn't really flaw in delivering it, IN A LESSON. Not to me. It's just really hard to do things on the internet. You lose a lot of the valuable, and necessary, things.
-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#18 [url]

Apr 2 07 1:52 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

Quote:
Cuno, I respect your knowledge of all this, but coming from a teacher, the preferable way to teach is to "show" and not just "tell".

By posting a clip, I would still just be telling you. I'd have to show you in YOUR voice in order for you to understand. Because, you see, I can show you something in my voice, and you can THINK that you're doing what I'm doing, yet still not actually be doing it. That's where the problem lies. Anyway, I'll post a clip later tonight. I don't have enough energy to do it right now.

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Sorry to come off as rude, because you have done me a great good in helping me understand what my voice is up to, but I think your pedagogy is awful.

What do you expect? This is the internet. You can only get across your point (when it comes to the voice) to a limited extent online. You can get across more on the phone, but all of this stuff is best done in person. It's kind of like trying to learn to ride a bike online. You may pick up a small tip here or there, but the bulk of what you learn will be in person. Online, the best I can give is the theory behind what you're doing and some simple suggestions. Anything beyond that would require me to work with you in real time. That's why I often say you need to find someone that understands this stuff and can demonstrate it to you (which is hard because not a lot of people understand it).
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We have eyes, but cannot see; ears, but cannot hear.

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#19 [url]

Apr 2 07 1:57 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

If you wouldn't have wasted so much energy being so hyper last night you'd have plenty for the day. =P

-Joshie

____________


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.

Angels are among us; when you find them, cherish their presence everyday.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ anonymous

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#20 [url]

Apr 2 07 2:08 PM

Re: Fear of Chest

Accept my apologies. I came back after playing football and re-read what I said. It was not fair for me to say your teaching method was awful. I may not appreciate it when you wonder why people seem to have a "fear of chest" when many are beginners struggling along as it is, but it was wrong to let that get under my skin.

This is the internet and its usefulness is limited as you rightly say. However, I believe some of my criticism is warranted. If people misunderstand you and you continue to use a system of terminology that many are unfamiliar with, that does not aide the situation.

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